Dialogue With A Psychiatrist
(highlight from dialogue):
“When Individual Self perishes; Universal Self is Born”
“Only when your particular individual self perishes may that
Universal Self be born in its stead”
(Note: “Mad_Shrink” is actually a minor alteration of the screen name which he has chosen)
Mad_Shrink: Hello, Sitaram, so, how’re you doing today?
Sitaram: You are the psychiatrist whom I met on-line in yahoo chat last week, yes?
Mad_Shrink: Yes , you have a good memory
Sitaram: Yes, you were flattering. You said I was “expansive”…
Sitaram: and you said that I gave you an inferiority complex
Mad_Shrink: I accessed your website
Sitaram: Thanks for visiting.
Mad_Shrink: You have a sharper memory than I could ever imagine
Sitaram: Actually, I am very forgetful and absent-minded, but your words happend to stick in my mind.
Mad_Shrink: Yes, I read some of your inter-faith dialogues
Mad_Shrink: and think that you are expansive
Sitaram: Do you find anything useful there, or of interest?
Mad_Shrink: I’ve learnt a lot already
Sitaram: Ah, good! I like it when people learn.
Mad_Shrink: ..although I have’nt seen too many pages.
Sitaram: It is good to use our minds.
Mad_Shrink: Yes, of course.
Sitaram: Dont forget, you can download the entire site to your hard drive in minutes and view off-line.
Mad_Shrink: How does one do that?
Sitaram: You must be able to use pkzip or winzip to unzip the files that you download.
Mad_Shrink: Will you please explain, I am new to computers.
Sitaram: pkzip,winzip is free shareware, from http://www.pkware.com
Sitaram: Yes… you click on my INDEX OF PAGES
Sitaram: Then, the first three items will download 100 pages at a time
Mad_Shrink: and then?
Sitaram: each download takes less than 5 minutes
Mad_Shrink: and then, how do I access them later?
Sitaram: then… you must have pkzip winzip installed,… which is I think from http://www.pkware.com
Sitaram: When you unzip them… they expand in a directory to files called page001.htm , page002.htm, etc
Sitaram: up to page255.htm
Mad_Shrink: OK, I’ll try to do as you say
Sitaram: Then you simply key into your browser for example c:myfilespage001.htm, if the htm files are in a folder called myfiles on drive c: , and you will be viewing everything in your brower… but without need for internet
Mad_Shrink: I want you to talk to me today about the Bhagvad Gita, please?
Mad_Shrink: if you wish
Sitaram: Did you give me your email… are you on my email list?
Sitaram: I send out about 5 articles today…..
Mad_Shrink: what, in your erudite opinion, is the essence of the Bhagvad? in very brief
Mad_Shrink: your knowledge of comparative theology is indeed awesome
Sitaram: Thanks for kind words….
Mad_Shrink: and you are well-read, indeed
Sitaram: Some of the articles I send out are simply interesting ones I find on the internet…
Sitaram: Today, I found a nice one on srimad Bhagavatam
Mad_Shrink: I often wonder how you found so much time to do so much?
Mad_Shrink: anything you’d like to tell me about the Bhagvad Gita, once again, please?
Sitaram: well… I just emailed you that one article on srimad bhagavatam
Sitaram: but… since you ask…
Sitaram: I will say….. some of the things i like to mention frequently from Gita
Mad_Shrink: I’d like to know your perception of the essence of the Gita not quotations, please, if you do not mind
Sitaram: Ch 4 vs 11 In whatever way people approach Me, I accept them…
Mad_Shrink: your own viewpoint
Sitaram: people everywhere follow My path….
Mad_Shrink: so, do that
Mad_Shrink: I approach you in this way
Sitaram: of course…. there are other translations of that verse which are more sectarian….
Mad_Shrink: no quotations, please, talk to me, don’t show off your knowledge
Sitaram: hmmm….. but…. I am trained to think in this fashion… giving references for everything….
Mad_Shrink: I want to know the essence of the Gita, in your opinion, your views
Sitaram: usually, people reject anything which is not substantiated
Mad_Shrink: No, I am interested in you as a person relating to me, not as a mouth-piece
Sitaram: It is like asking me to write to you, but without using letters of the alphabet, since I would be showing off my knowledge of the alphabet
Mad_Shrink: You have a point
Sitaram: to talk about Gita,… we must quote the Gita
Sitaram: to talk about Gospels, we must quote Gospels
Mad_Shrink: but the analogy is not quite accurate
Mad_Shrink: I am seeking your opinion
Mad_Shrink: I do not mean to say that I know so much that I can discuss with you
Sitaram: there are a certain number of dialogues at my website, where I speak theology apart from any scripture or textual reference….
Mad_Shrink: I am interested in relating to YOU
Sitaram: yet you must realize that whatever I say,…. I am only the sum total of everything which I have internalized…
Mad_Shrink: here, on the net
Sitaram: I have a suggestion for you,… an idea….
Mad_Shrink: fine, tell me
Sitaram: have you ever read Dostoevsky?
Sitaram: the Brothers Karamazov?
Mad_Shrink: No , I have read Crime and Punishment and The Idiot
Sitaram: the first 100 pages or so is an account given by the fictional character, the monk Zossima….in Brothers Karamazov
Mad_Shrink: You are very factually oriented, brother
Sitaram: the monk Zossima tells how as a young man, he rejected a career in the military to take up the orthodox monastic spiritual life
Mad_Shrink: I wonder how your family ever coped with you, or did they?
Sitaram: But I am trying to make a point for you…
Mad_Shrink: Alright , go ahead
Sitaram: If you read Doestoevsky’s account… you will see that….
Sitaram: Someone like Zossima…. BECOMES ZOSSIMA,…. precisely by internalizing all the scriptures until they become second nature
Sitaram: in other words…. the indivuality of Zossima is not what is interesting
Mad_Shrink: That is true, indeed, but you are stuck midway
Sitaram: that individuality dies as part of the spiritual developmental process; that which TRULY interests us is the personality which evolves as a living embodiment of those scriptures and traditions….
Mad_Shrink: I also thought, albeit open to criticism, that you are a poor listener
Sitaram: so…. a Ramakrishna, or a Ramana Marharshi fascinates us PRECISELY because their own individuality perished as they became LIVING EMBODIMENTS of the traditions that they represent.
Mad_Shrink: You are pontifical
Sitaram: but.. I am addressing myself in a very precise way to your first objection… but you do not have the attention span to pursue the thought to its conclusion…. ( I know that sounds harsh), and you mix in too much of I, Me, My ego which makes it difficult for you to listen and perhaps benefit…
Mad_Shrink: I merely asked you to tell me your view of the essence of the Gita, from your gleanings
Sitaram: but… then in a bizzare fashion… you forbade me to quote from the Gita…
Mad_Shrink: to quote, yes
Sitaram: Yet anyone and everyone who speaks on Gita is expected to quote from gita
Mad_Shrink: But where was your originality?
Sitaram: The object is precisely NOT to be original.. that is the very point that you are missing… Although I have written 2000 pages on these things.. which you may download and read…. yet you want me to speak DIRECTLY to you… on the same subject… which is a desire that stems from your personal ego….
Mad_Shrink: Do i have a right to disagree?
Sitaram: So when I try to oblige your desire…
Mad_Shrink: Yes, I am listening
Sitaram: then you feel you must CONTROL the manner in which I discourse
Mad_Shrink: Fine, go ahead
Sitaram: which also stems from your personal ego…
Mad_Shrink: and tell me using the form you wish
Sitaram: I am merely trying to hold up for you a mirror so you may perhaps see your own psychodynamics
Mad_Shrink: I understand and I do not mean any offence
Sitaram: you currently have obstacles, impediments to your inquiry…
Mad_Shrink: for at a level, I have tremendous respect for a person such as you
Sitaram: until you understand and remove these ego impediments… you will not benefit from readings or discourse
Mad_Shrink: Yes, I am grateful that you point this out
Sitaram: If you truly want to understand, and to BECOME the Gita, Upanisads, Gospels, Dhammapada… then you must give up desires for originality
Mad_Shrink: but you could have just said that earlier
Sitaram: Only when your particular individual self perishes may that Universal Self be born in its stead.
Mad_Shrink: stopped me there, saying that you will decide the form or that it is not possible for you to have me control the way you would answer the question
Sitaram: so, getting back to Doestoyevsky, Zossima is of interest only when, through a process, his individuality dies… and Zossima becomes an embodiment of the Gospels….
Mad_Shrink: I understand
Sitaram: but if you can manage to download my website to your local drive you can read for yours the highlights of dialogues I have had over past 2 years….
Mad_Shrink: why do you always get back to your website?
Sitaram: which is, in some ways BETTER than speaking to me directly
Mad_Shrink: You probably are right, I’ll try that
Sitaram: Since I am an organic being… with moments of weariness, forgetfulness, etc….
Mad_Shrink: Your style is too expansive for me
Sitaram: …so, writing is a tool which distills and synthesizes something that is MORE than me at any given moment
Mad_Shrink: I prefer a simple, straightforward chat, do not mean to be hurtful
Sitaram: If we could chat with Plato or Socrates… it would not be as rewarding as a Platonic dialogue for the same reason…
Mad_Shrink: but I find your manner a trifle adversarial
Sitaram: Those figures which we admire in history… we come to know them ONLY THROUGH that distillation of writing and tradition
Mad_Shrink: I know exactly what you mean
Sitaram: Which by its very nature is LARGER THAN LIFE…
Mad_Shrink: You are right! Yes, sitaram
Sitaram: SO you see, if you met me face to face… well… I might be a disappointment after the ME that you might come to know through my writings
Sitaram: but I understand peoples need to have something straight from “the horses mouth” so to speak…
Sitaram: actually,.. you have raised some intersting issues in this dialogue of ours
Mad_Shrink: Thank you, sitaram, like what for instance?
Mad_Shrink: What issues?
Sitaram: Well… our entire discussion of the person we meet in writings vs the person in real life
Mad_Shrink: and one may now add net life
Sitaram: that the literary persona is LARGER than life…. just like the moviestar on screen is more striking than in person
Reader response to Dialogue with Psychiatrist
===== (a readers response):
I enjoyed that post of your dialogue with the psychiatrist. Would a meeting with the Buddha be a disappointment? All the stories I’ve read about encounters with the Buddha (or Ramkrishna Paramhansa) are eloquent about the peace radiating from the person. The person impressed more than the words. Would you then make a distinction between (learning and knowledge) on one hand and (enlightenment and self-knowledge) on the other? Can the latter be attained without the former?
I have a question that I think Mad-Shrink was leading to… With all your learning of Theology, Hindu and otherwise, would you consider yourself to be happy and enlightened?
I’m not trying to be rude. I’m just curious.
Actually, you are correct in pointing out that Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi and others wrote little or nothing themselves, and did radiate a tremendous grace or peace. In fact, Someset Maughm had a meeting with Ramana Maharshi and, because he was an “intellectual” totally conditioned to that “literary presence”, he totally missed the point of sitting with Ramana Maharshi in silence. I was rather hastily trying to make a point to the psychiatrist, a point which still has validity, though it does not precisely apply to people like Ramakrishna or Ramana Maharshi.
Lord Krisha said “Better to do ONE’S OWN DHARMA, even if imperfectly, rather than to do another’s Dharma to perfection.
I am reminded of some of those New Yorker cartoons of the clown sitting in his dressing room forlornly reciting Hamlet before the mirror. The clown desires to play Hamlet. Mr. Spock of Star Trek grows to detest his portrayal of a Vulcan alien, to the point of writing a book entitled “I am not Spock”.
I am a failure at many different things at life, but curiously successful in this strange little thing I have been doing for the past two years. I personally believe that I am doing that Dharma which I was ment to do in this lifetime, however imperfectly I may be doing it. I myself am a means to some greater end. That end has nothing to do with my own personal happiness or enlightenment, other than the fact that it is “good” to do ones own Dharma, to surrender to it. I am also aware that I may very likely pay for my activities one day with my life. That is something which I realized long ago and accepted as “part of the job”. If you take what I was told in my dream with any seriousness, in page 1 of my website, then you realize that I must be reborn several more times to be “purified” through suffering.
One of the pages at my website states that “we are exactly what we should be at each point in time”. Someone was scandalized by this and said, “Does that mean that people should be prostitutes or drug dealers.” My answer was that people like Gandhi and Mother Theresa and Ramana Maharshi were as much ineluctably drawn to satyagraha, charity, and ascetical tapas, as the thief or prostitute or drug addict is drawn to their life and activities. It is part of a karmic cause and effect that each of us must work through. There was a necessity for Hitler and Ravanna; without them there would be no Schindler’s List, and no Ramanand Sagar (or Tulsidas) Ramayan. For all we know, a bee is happy makeing honey, the viper is happy making venom, and the cow is “happy” making milk; yet all three drink from the same pool of water to quench their thirst.
Bottom line: If you are circus clown, and know you were meant to be a circus clown, and have surrendered to that Dharma, then be a GOOD circus clown. Dont pine away because you are not playing Hamlet.
(the reader then asks):
Why didn’t Krsna reveal the message of the Geeta to Duryodhan? If Arjun *needed* the Geeta at that point because he was hesitating from doing his duty, does that mean that the Kauravas were ‘better’ (in a loose sense)? They were fairly committed to their Dharma. Is there a bias in the cosmos towards ‘good’ or is there no such thing as ‘good’? What does the Geeta say about this? Why did Krsna side with the Pandavas?
I understand intuitively when you say that your dharma may not be coupled strongly with your peace of mind.
Your comment about the viper reminded me of a rather heart-warming thought that I read in this book called ‘The snake-bite survivor’s club’ or something like that. It was to the effect that ‘It is only in India that you might learn not to fear the snake, and indeed learn to love it.’
Why does Lord Krsna manifest to Arjuna and not Duryodhan? Lord Krishna says (paraphrasing): “Whenever righteousness declines, and unrighteousness increases, I will descend and Manifest Myself, in every age.”
It is true that Lord Krishna appeared to Arjuna, but that does not mean that the Supreme Lord manifests to EACH and every one of us personally when we are in need.
Through all the centuries of history of the Jewish peoples, God appeared in some personal fashion to only a relative handful: Moses, Abraham, Samuel, David, Job, Elijah, Elisha, etc.
It IS TRUE that God will manifest in some way to each of us during our lives, if we are ripe for it, but for the majority of us, that manifestation is WITHIN our reading, meditation, and absorption into such Divine Lilas as the Geeta, Gospels, the Torah, etc. And if we take the Anugita seriously, with Arjuna’s predicament, that even though he was given spiritualized vision and was allowed to see the Lord’s Universal Form or Satsvarup; now the radiance of that experience was fading to a dim memory, and Arjuna approaches Krishna asking what he should do.
Even though only certain Apostles beheld the Transfiguration of Christ on Mt. Tabor as a radian Being of Light surrounded by Prophets in transcendent dialogue, yet when that moment ended, as all moments end, those apostles were left with there original embodied human frailty and doubts.
That is why Jesus said “Yea, blessed are you who see these things, but far more blessed are those who never see and yet believe.” In the Ramayan, Shabari’s most blessed moment was NOT when she met her Lord Ram face to face; but was rather that moment in her devotion, her bhakti when she attracted the Lord’s attention. Lord Krishna says a very perplexing thing: “All sentient beings, embodied jivas, are the same in My eyes and I treat them all equally; yet My devotee is most dear to me.” This would seem to be a contradiction, would it not?
Since the Lord as the author and master of all dualities transcends all dualities, i.e. is immanent in each quality as its source (I am the cleverness of the cheater, I am the old man upon the staff, I am the young maiden, I am the green parrot with the red eyes); hence the eight siddhis or powers of the Lord seem mutually contradictory. The Lord may become infinitely great, or infinitessimally small; He may become heavy as a mountain, or light as a feather….. etc etc…. but here is the most significant of the Lord’s abilities… He may become absolute master, BUT ALSO HE MAY SUFFER ABSOLUTE BONDAGE AND SERVITUDE.
One of the names of Lord Krsna is Damodar, which means “bound at the waiste or stomach”.
When Mother Yashoda attempts to bind young Lord Krsna to a pillar for His impish pranks, she discovers that all the rope in the village is not enought to encompass Him. No matter how much she adds, it always falls short by half an inch. But finally, Lord Krishna allows Himself to be bound. Is this not strikingly similar to the Crucifixion? The imagery is the same, The Infinite takes human birth and suffers to be bound.
It is bhakti (devotion) which binds the Lord.
I could say much much more, but this post is sufficiently long.
SOME WEEKS LATER (9/20/2000),… the dialogue with Mad_Shrink resumes:
Mad_Shrink: STOP “I” ing me to death with every sentence. Simply talk with me without constantly saying “I”, “I”, “I”
=======connection is lost
Mad_Shrink: You left! Was I too harsh? Did I anger you?
Sitaram: no.. i clicked wrong button and closed the chat window
Mad_Shrink: yes, back to your question “is there some the confluence of all religions”
Sitaram: sorry for my grammer…. i was taught from ealiest childhood that it is the greatest impropriety to stray from correct grammar and spelling, so I do not feel comfortable unless I frequently use the personal pronoun.
Mad_Shrink: never mind
Sitaram: it is a cultural thing…
Mad_Shrink: let’s talk about religion
Mad_Shrink: the confluence
Mad_Shrink: the Jehad
Sitaram: ok… wait a minute.. i want to take a moment to add you to my yahoo pager list… this yahoo pager is very new to me
Mad_Shrink: i do not wish to do that
Sitaram: aha.. it worked fine…
Sitaram: ohhh… sorry.. didnt see your last post
Sitaram: so.. then… simply deny request
Mad_Shrink: never mind
Mad_Shrink: never mind
Sitaram: didnt mean to be presumptuous
Mad_Shrink: but you always are presumptuous
Mad_Shrink: never mind
Sitaram: you see.. i have a problem with absentminded ness….. and i speak with hundreds…. so its more convenient,for people i really like
Mad_Shrink: the confluence of all religions
Sitaram: to have them on a buddy list
Sitaram: ok back to confluence
Mad_Shrink: what is the common thread running through all the religions?
Sitaram: let me gather my thoughts one second
Sitaram: we must distinguish between two aspects of “confluence”,…. point of origin (more properly effluence, i suppose), and teleological/eschatological confluence (or unity) if that should indeed ever come to pass
Mad_Shrink: what is eschatological mean?
Sitaram: there is the issue of the common origin/source of all religiosity/spirituality….
Mad_Shrink: what does,,,,,,
Mad_Shrink: what is eschatology?
Sitaram: in greek (you must be patient with me, i speak greek, and someties think in greek)
Mad_Shrink: i see
Sitaram: eschatos means temporal end…… but not necessary a final teleology or goal towards which something is perfecting
Sitaram: Teleios means “end” in the sense of a perfected goal towards which things were striving
Mad_Shrink: what is your understanding of the Holy Spirit?
Sitaram: for example… if the sun explodes tomorrow, or a comet strikes the earth,… that is the eschatological end of things (but with no purpose of design…)… simply a temporal end
Sitaram: but…. a “final judgement” a “second coming” a “new heaven/new earth”… the things which Abrahamic religions dwell on… such is a teleiological end
Mad_Shrink: thank you
Mad_Shrink: Holy Spirit?
Sitaram: and… to have an even better understanding… it helps to be somewhat familiar, as a good example of this, of the thinking of Hegel…. and his notion of “an end of History”,
Sitaram: sorry.. i know you are now impatient to change subjects to “holy spirit”
Sitaram: though we have not delt adequately with first question of “confluence of all religions”
Mad_Shrink: not a “change” of subjects at all
Sitaram: but… i aim to please….
Sitaram: ok… regarding question of Holy Spirit… one moment
Mad_Shrink: please do not aim to please me
Mad_Shrink: i wonder how you must be in your personal life
Mad_Shrink: you hardly ever pay attention to what the other is saying…..
Sitaram: it is my nature, a cultural thing… like the grammar business of personal pronouns,… or my habit of trying to proceed along one line of thought in a certain progression
Mad_Shrink: perhaps because you have so much to tell
Sitaram: you are unfair in your criticism…. because i am bending over backwards to do things “your way”….
Mad_Shrink: very linear
Sitaram: not that im angry or offended… but in one breath.. you say “do not try to please me”.. but in another….you insist that everything be “your way” =======(loss of internet connection. I log back in and resume dialogue)
Mad_Shrink: glad i waited
Sitaram: sorry… i often loose connection
Mad_Shrink: what happened?
Mad_Shrink: you were logged out?
Sitaram: static on phone line
Sitaram: sometimes i get 6 hours straight… no problems
Mad_Shrink: i do not mean to hurt you
Sitaram: other time, i get “booted” every 30 minutes
Mad_Shrink: but in a dialogue, you can’t necessarily be so linear
Sitaram: no… actually… i think i rather understand the “psychodamics” of how you perceive me, and interact with me…
Mad_Shrink: one often gets interrupted
Mad_Shrink: and one has to change
Sitaram: but… were i to speak candidly… you would think me presumptuous
Mad_Shrink: you may not be able to reach the completion of a thought
Mad_Shrink: unless you are alone
Mad_Shrink: i believe you are not a good listener
Sitaram: you see… you were quite accurate, in our initial meeting, when you described me as “expansive”
Mad_Shrink: but you want complete conformity from those who listen to you
Mad_Shrink: in the way they need to listen
Sitaram: but… you fail to see that it is YOU who insists on complete conformity… an you project that on me…
Mad_Shrink: till you have completed your linear thought to it’s logical conclusion
Sitaram: if i may share something with you in all sincerity and candor
Mad_Shrink: i think there is a mismatch here
Mad_Shrink: please share
Mad_Shrink: waiting, Sir
Sitaram: in the past 2 years… of chatting with literally hundreds of people.. literally 12 and 16 hours per day….. you are unique in certain things which you have insisted upon/or said
Mad_Shrink: this was not candid
Sitaram: and… my website is a audit trail of many of those dialogues
Mad_Shrink: not candid at all
Sitaram: im not finished with my thought
Mad_Shrink: waiting, Sir
Sitaram: you lack the patience to even allow me to compose my thoughts and express myself
Mad_Shrink: and do you ever listen?
Sitaram: in 2 year (full time)… with HUNDREDS…no one has become angry at my use of personal pronouns… for example
Sitaram: no one has ever insisted that i discuss a scripture.. but use absolutely no quotations…
Mad_Shrink: fine, so that is unique?
Sitaram: i am trying to help you get some insight into your own “personality”
Mad_Shrink: you are indeed kind
Sitaram: you are a VERY PROUD individual… and that pride gets in your way…
Mad_Shrink: sarcasm very much intended
Mad_Shrink: how do you know?
Sitaram: you see.. you are angry… and i am not
Mad_Shrink: yes, i am proud
Sitaram: i realize that it is difficult for a physician, such as yourself, to approach someone such as me, a self taught layperson, with no degrees….
Mad_Shrink: that is untrue
Sitaram: it is the very nature of our society to view MDs in a special light
Mad_Shrink: untrue, again
Mad_Shrink: some deserve it
Sitaram: even our President is “Mr President”…. but we always say Dr. and Mrs. Smith
Sitaram: you know.. I will share something with you that I read in David Viscott’s autobiographical book “The Making of a Psychiatrist”
Mad_Shrink: please do
Sitaram: Viscott pointed out the great irony that….. the very process of Medical School and Residency to train a Psychiatrist, tends to allow only those who are “hard boiled owls”…. to make the grade
Sitaram: in other words… thick skinned, highly competitive, driven…etc
Mad_Shrink: yes, true in general
Mad_Shrink: now you will be happy because i agreed with you
Sitaram: and yet in practice… they are engaged in an activity which requires compassion in the utmost… and perhaps…. a great degree of humility
Sitaram: aha.. but… you again project YOUR OWN happiness at “receiving approval”… upon me
Sitaram: if you will read through my website.. you will understand how little such agreement means to me……
Mad_Shrink: sitaram, thank you for your valuable insights, i would like to leave
Sitaram: i am sorry you feel that way
Mad_Shrink: bye, sitaram
Sitaram: i do hope, if you are calmed down… you will chat with me in the future
Mad_Shrink: well, you are overestimating me
Mad_Shrink: bye, sitaram
Sitaram: this is very sad
Sitaram: i hope you reflect upon these issues
Sitaram: actually… we both have something to gain by continued dialogue
Mad_Shrink: bye, sitaram
Sitaram: you must one day confront this enemy within you
Sitaram: or you will never know peace
Mad_Shrink: which enemy?
Mad_Shrink: which enemy?
Mad_Shrink: which enemy?
Sitaram: your anger, your pride… your stubbornness… your desire to control
Mad_Shrink: thank you, again
Sitaram: you will not be able to properly serve your patients… unless you change
Sitaram: I can help you with some suggested readings.. such as David Viscott’s autobiography… and some other works in psychology, psychiatry
Sitaram: such readings would not be the advice of a layperson like myself…but would be words from fellow physicians
Mad_Shrink: thank you, sitaram, you send mail regularly anyway
Mad_Shrink: bye, sitaram
Sitaram: bye… I am most saddened by your behavior
Sitaram: for your sake..not for my own
Mad_Shrink: i meant that in your mail, you send references anyway
Mad_Shrink: for that, we do not have to chat
Sitaram: would you prefer that i send you some thoughts on this matter in email…
Mad_Shrink: no, please
Sitaram: perhaps you would find email less upsetting than on line chat
Mad_Shrink: you have humiliated me enough, without bothering to get to know or understand me
Sitaram: but… it is you who humiliate yourself… that is what the demon of pride does…
Sitaram: look at great personalities like Jesus or Gandhi…. who were never humiliated…
Mad_Shrink: how would you know?
Sitaram: humility is the vaccination against humiliation
Mad_Shrink: how would you know?
Sitaram: it is most evident in their lives and writings….
Mad_Shrink: but you have taught me one thing
Sitaram: you know a very great woman Eleanor Roosevelt said it best…
Sitaram: No one can humiliate you without your consent
Mad_Shrink: and that is, this kind of dialogue cannot appreciate the non-verbal nuances of expression
Sitaram: she was a very unattractive woman, in the public eye, with a handicapped husband who was unfaithful to her
Mad_Shrink: thank you for that
Mad_Shrink: this is a very deficient “form”
Sitaram: yet.. she never allowed herself to be humiliated
Mad_Shrink: YOU ARE RIGHT
Mad_Shrink: YOU ARE RIGHT
Sitaram: humiliation and anger is an admmission of defeat
Sitaram: I do not have a great desire “to be right”
Mad_Shrink: I take this lesson today with me
Sitaram: I do have a desire to assist others who are trying to improve themselves… along whatever path
Mad_Shrink: HUMILIATION AND ANGER IS AN ADMISSION OF DEFEAT
Sitaram: are you sincere… or is this sarcasm
Mad_Shrink: THANK YOU
Mad_Shrink: A SHIFT CREATED SOMEWHERE
Sitaram: have I truly helped you see something of value
Mad_Shrink: IN THE MIND
Mad_Shrink: YES, YOU HAVE
Sitaram: there is perhaps a purpose for our meeting…
Mad_Shrink: THAT IS WHAT I MEAN ABOUT THE NET
Sitaram: things do not happen without purpose
Sitaram: there is something which you need from me, and you have been attracted to communicate with me….
Mad_Shrink: UNLESS YOU ARE WITH ME, AND SEE ME TALK TO YOU, HOW WILL YOU KNOW ME OR SEE THAT I AM NOT SARCASTIC
Sitaram: we must both be patient and discover what that “something ” is…
Mad_Shrink: but not on this impersonal net
Sitaram: i have a suggestion… but perhaps you will find my suggestion strange, or even egotistical… but… it has come to my mind just now
Mad_Shrink: this is definitely my last net chat with you
Mad_Shrink: tell me, please
Sitaram: I thought you were finding something of value.. with your last statements
Sitaram: ah… my suggestion…
Mad_Shrink: what came to your mind just now?
Sitaram: I am thinking of Ramana Maharshi…..
Sitaram: how people would come and simply have “darshan”, sit silently in his presence….
Sitaram: when we look into someones face… something is communicated…
Sitaram: so.. here is my strange idea…..
Sitaram: get a photo of ramana marharshi… and also a picture (drawing of Shirdi Sai Baba)…..
Sitaram: and finally… go to page 1 of my website and print out the photo of me there…..
Sitaram: perform this unusual experiment….
Sitaram: spend some time looking at those three pictures…. ramana and sai for the obvious darshan…
Sitaram: but look too at my picture… my face…. to access that about me…in me… which does not come easily in typed words
Sitaram: and perhaps…. something in you will change, which will facilitate further discussions
Mad_Shrink: bye, sitaram
Sitaram: of course.. another possibility in the future is yahoo voice chat in a private chat room,
Sitaram: where we can hear each others voice
Sitaram: do you think my idea has any merit… or does it seem foolish to you?
Mad_Shrink: i do not know
Sitaram: you need not answer today
Mad_Shrink: fine, thank you, sitaram
Sitaram: your welcome
Mad_Shrink: may i leave now?
Sitaram: certainly… i hope you return
Mad_Shrink: God Bless
Sitaram: the both of us… blessing
Mad_Shrink: i am small, you are knowledgeable